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What is The Pre-Existent Logos

Hello everyone I've been making some diagrams to try to illustrate John's concept of the pre-existent logos or word in John 1:1. In the beginning was the logos or in the beginning was the word and so I thought I'd share that with you here in this video (below). I'll just dive right into it the first diagram you see here (below) is just a depiction of God before creation, before God said let there be light. I'm showing God here is a heart because John says God is love and we're trying to tackle here John's concept.

God is love

He says God is love so in eternity we have God who is love and within God Himself He conceives His logos, His word He conceives within Himself. That's what a logos (plan,purpose) is basically, it's when you conceive something within yourself and you might outwardly express it to someone else. But it's a logos really before you express it, it doesn't necessarily really have to be something that's spoken although it's sort of expected in the nature of the word. God conceives that within himself and that's what that circle represents. There a circle inside God. Logos conceived in God

If we just picture that heart as God and so His logos is that circle what He's conceived a conception within Him and what He conceived within Him is His son His human son. And that is what His logos is conceived in His love His logos my son. And God has conceived His son in His love, and that is His logos. That's kind of what John is getting at John 1:18 when he talks about, no one has ever seen God but the son in the bosom of the Father expresses Him. The son is always in the Father's love because the Father conceived His son in His love before the creation of the world and because that is the Father's logos.


Jesus is an expression of the Father because His son is an expression of He Himself because God's logos is within him. It's not like something that's different than Him it's the essence of who and what He is. God is love, God is light, God is truth, God's life and his logos expresses the truth of these things and it expresses the reality of God. That's why Jesus is the way to the Father because that's how we get to know the Father through His logos. It's like you get to know me when I speak my logos, what's in my mind and I utter it out to you and you get to know me. I don't get to know you necessarily but you get to know me, same kind of idea. The son has always been in the bosom of the Father because the Father conceived His human son before the creation of the world. He just didn't really conceive that His son would sort of exist you know, I'm conceiving that I'll have a son that will exist. It's far more than that within that logos. It is the birth of His son, the baptism of his son, the ministry of his son, and the death of His son. The whole picture, the whole image that God conceived of His son, what He wants His son to be. God's logos is His son conceived in His love before the world was and everything about his son is conceived, that's what this logos is. It's like a whole picture of His son from His birth until it is death on the cross and his glorification.God's Son is conceived in his love



Everything His son would be, everything His son would do, that's God's logos the whole picture of His son. And so if we think about these words in the beginning at John 1:1 and we take these words in the beginning to refer to “in the beginning” just before God created, just before He said let there be light. A little later on we'll see this phrase has another dimension to it, but for now we'll just look at it like it's referring to Genesis in the beginning. Just before God said let there be light just before the Spirit was hovering over the waters there, God has conceived this logos in His love and He's going to express that. He's going to create all things through His word. So here we are in the beginning okay John 1:1 what does it say in the beginning was the logos, do we have that here yes we do, the logos is here in the beginning because God conceived this logos within Himself, in the bosom of the Father. John 1:1 B and the logos was with God, do we have that here, yes we do, the logos is within Him. That word “pros” in Greek at John 1:1 “the word was with God” it means just something a little bit different than the English word “with” just a little bit.


It kind of carries the idea that something is present to you and just before you, kind of like intimately with you and it doesn't have to be people, it could be you and a thing, it could be a couple of things but it's right there before you. When it's used with you know a state of verb like this, it's a little harder to translate that when it's used with an action verb. With an action verb it's often translated as toward but that's not quite it, either if it says John came “pros” Jesus, or John came toward Jesus the idea is there that John was coming to be present before Jesus, kind of right there before him. This can be true of you know persons or things and so God has this logos of His son right there within himself, the logos was with God. John 1:1b do we have that here, yes we do, and John 1:1 C says the logos was God. Do we have that here, yes we do, The Father's logos is within Himself, it isn't really like something other than Himself, it's the essence of He Himself the essence of His love, His life, His light, His truth. His word expresses truth, right that's what His logos is. It's an expression of His truth He is truth. You know you conceives up something in your mind like a painting or a picture or an idea , is that really something different than you, no it's part of you, it's part of you until you express it out on the word of your mouth. If it's a painting, you make the painting, only now it's something else, but as long as it's within you it is you.


When we look at this picture here (see above) if we picture the heart as God and His logos within Him, this image of His son was in Him, this conception within the Father. What do we have, the word was God in the beginning, that's all we have here is God, and what God has conceived within Himself When John says the word was with God, he doesn't want you to get the idea O there's two things before creation. A lot of the Greeks and the pagans had this idea and some of the heretics had this idea. John is saying, no you're not getting away with that one, the word was God, there's not two things. God and His word aren't like two things. Before creation God is one, and before creation there's nothing but God and so when we talk of His logos we must understand it's not something other than the Father but the essence of He Himself within Him. He creates this image of His son His logos as an expression of His own essence, His own love, His own life, His own truth, His own light and that's why when Jesus is manifested this logos, God is manifested in the flesh. Jesus is an expression of the Father, in this way the Father abiding in me, He does the works he says. It's all coming back to this kind of mindset. Let's just expand the picture a little bit, and we kind of want to get to the whole panorama of creation from when God said let there be light until when Jesus breathed his last breath on the cross. What I'm showing here is God speaking everything into existence and those blue lines they just represent the breath of his mouth, or the spirit of his mouth the Holy Spirit.Logos or Word


We read at Psalm 33:6-9 how God created all things by speaking His word and there's lots of verses that say this, By the word of the Yahweh the heavens were made and by the breath of His mouth all their hosts.... for He spoke and it was done, He commanded and it stood fast.God creates all things through his logos His word. Remember it's the logos that he conceived within Himself before creation, and what is that logos, it's a picture of His son, an image of His son and we're going to see how that fits right here with God speaking everything into existence a little later on in this video.(below) God's logos or His word is carried along in the breath of His mouth. Just a thought like, if I said “apple” it's carried along in the breath of my mouth, or I'm presenting to you what's on my mind. Right now it's coming out on the power or breath of my mouth and that's how logos works with spirit or word. A word is carried along in your breath. Logos is carried along in the spirit of God's mouth.


God creates all things through His logos His word. Remember it's the logos that he conceived within Himself before creation, and what is that logos, it's a picture of His son, an image of His son and we're going to see how that fits right here with God speaking everything into existence a little later on in this video.(below) God's logos or His word is carried along in the breath of His mouth. Just a thought like, if I said “apple” it's carried along in the breath of my mouth, or I'm presenting to you what's on my mind. Right now it's coming out on the power or breath of my mouth and that's how logos works with spirit or word. A word is carried along in your breath. Logos is carried along in the spirit of God's mouth. Logos is spirit


 Four very important verses to understand, Isaiah 55:11 Yahweh get things done by speaking His word, the word that goes out on the breath of His mouth will most definitely accomplish what He desires. He speaks it and He's done His work. It will accomplish what he desires without failure. And that's why Hebrews 4:3 says God has been finished all His works from the foundation of the world, He spoke, He was done, dusted off His hands rested on the Sabbath. He has finished everything and that's why Hebrews 4:3 says that, it's because when God speaks His word He knows that when His word goes out in the breath of His mouth it will accomplish just what He desired. When God was saying everything He had to say, when He was creating, He was done, everything that He decreed will occur such as in Revelation 13:8 says, The lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world, so it's like God said let the lamb be slain, and He was done, from the foundation of the world. That's why John uses the Greek perfect tense at Revelation 13:8 which means a completed past event, the lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world. God was finished as soon as he spoke it, let the lamb be slain, and He said that at the foundation of the world. But we mustn't think that it's like a magician going presto and something appears like a rabbit out of a hat. God sets times and seasons, He fixed His times and seasons by His own authority. God when he speaks His word to create it's not as if everything just “poof” and it appears, that he spoke to appear.


It doesn't work like that, He spoke His word but within that He fixed the times and season when those things will appear in our creation. God's not in our creation He's not in time, He's not subject to time, we are subject to time. God fixes the times and seasons in our time and space when these things will come to pass, so He speaks, He's done, let the lamb be slain, and He also says in His word at the cross, He's done, it's a finished work. It will occur in our time as far as God is concerned from His perspective it's a done deal. It's as good as done, it's a reality. And that's how existence and reality begins. Is existence and reality begins with you and me? or when we first see something, no existence and reality begins with God. God is the creator and that's where existence and reality begins He spoke He decided what will be and He decided this lamb will be slain. When he speaks it, it's finished it's done it's a reality it exists it's a existence reality. Just because it's not an existent reality in our time and space it doesn't mean it's not an existent reality. It is because God spoke it and he was finished His work at the foundation of the world. That's why the Jews had this idea that things that God had promised and decreed and predestined, they were existed, they were like realities, it's because God was finished with His work. People get caught up thinking something isn't a reality unless they see it, something is a reality when it begins with God.


As soon as God starts that reality, He puts that reality into motion. It is reality and He starts it into motion when He speaks it. He spoke His logos at the foundation of the world, let the lamb be slain in Jerusalem, done, the lamb had been slain from the foundation of the world. God was finished His work. Let's look at a little bit bigger scale now. My logos


This diagram sort of shows from the creation of the world when God spoke and that box shows basically the life of Jesus. If you go from left to right it's going along in time so God spoke his logos the conception of His son and we'll just imagine that is hidden up there in heaven with God. It will happen in the times and seasons He fixed by his own authority Acts 1:7. And so right around the time of the virgin Mary, was a young woman. The time has come that God is fixed by his own authority and now we have the birth of His son. The baptism of His son, the ministry of His son, and the death of His son. The logos that was spoken, the logos that was conceived in God's mind is now manifested in this creation. It's being fulfilled in our time and space, the logos in God's mind is being manifested in our creation. That's kind of the main thing to see with John's logos, this is a basic idea, and that's why Jesus could say, before Abraham was I am, at John 8:58.

 

Before abraham was I

When Jesus is speaking in the Gospel of John, he's speaking as that conception of the son that God pictured before creation in the spirit, what God had conceived Jesus to be. Jesus conformed to and obeyed that picture that came to him in the spirit when he received the spirit at the Jordan. And this logos of God this word of God came to him and it was a picture or an image of what his Father wanted him to be. So he began to speak as that one, that picture that God wanted him to be. That son, that conception of the son existed before creation, existence begins with God, it didn't begin in the womb of Mary. Just like a father who you know conceives a human son, a human father conceives a human son in the love of his heart. Then he conceives in the womb of his wife the conception of that son. It really began in his heart that's where it first began, and that's what we have to see here. That's why Jesus could say, before Abraham was I am, I was in the bosom of my Father before He said let there be light.  That's what he's saying there, he's not saying, well you know it's a self-conscious pre-existent divine second person of the trinity, hanging out with the Father in eternity past. Nothing like that at all, he's just talking about the fact that God had conceived His son in His love before creation. Jesus is the manifestation of that. The word become flesh, all existence begins within the Father. He was in the bosom of the Father this human being of flesh this man of flesh was in the bosom of the Father before the world was. Paul talks about this more in a mystery sort of perspective, and a mystery is basically not something you know. You need to really dig deep and hard to figure out what is in the mystery. But a mystery is something that at least at one point in time wasn't revealed, and it would probably be something like you know, if thousand years ago you know a man's wife she gets pregnant and this child is a mystery. This is what the concept of a mystery is in their minds here in the Bible, the child is a mystery because you don't know if it's a boy or a girl. You don't know if it's going to be healthy, you don't know exactly what day or hour it will be born and all these kinds of things. It's kind of a mystery until a child is born then the mystery is revealed. The word mystery and revealed kind of go together because a mystery is something you want to be revealed at some point in time. And it's not like a secret you know that God's not telling it. It's something that's coming, and you know, it hasn't been realized in our time and space yet, and that mystery that's been planned by God hasn't been unfolded in time yet.


When Jesus is born when he dies and when he rises again, that mystery of Christ is revealed, you know and Paul uses his term several times this “mystery” word and it always refers to God's mystery of His son Jesus Christ. And it's been hidden since the foundation of the world until the birth, death, mainly the death and resurrection of Jesus. And so that's why you also see this kind of language if you just look at the image below. mystery of christ


The fullness of time, Jesus died at the proper time. This is in several places in the New Testament, usually kind of goes unnoticed because in trinitarian world it kind of doesn't have a lot of relevance. But this is something God conceived before the foundation of the world, He set the times and seasons by his own authority. Acts 1:7 and in the fullness of times, the time and season He had fixed these things to happened in the proper time in the fullness of time. The times and seasons God had fixed when he conceived this before the foundation of the world. There's an unfolding to this, and if we just kind of look on that top line of the above image, God's logos is the conception of His son and that's you know in a way it starts becoming a reality before Jesus is born in Bethlehem. One of the ways that happen is that word of God, that same logos that God conceived before creation. The same word that God spoke to create all things came to Abraham and that word is a conception of God's Son. Promised seed


Abraham received that word of God in the spirit and part of that logos conception of God, that the promised seed would come through Abraham, and Abraham knew this that through his seed all the families of the earth would be blessed. That's kind of the other thing Jesus says at John 8:58 Abraham rejoiced to see my day, he saw it and was glad, look at the image above, before Abraham was I am. Is he before Abraham? yes he's in the bosom of the Father, not a self-conscious person but he's there. So the word of God comes to Abraham in the form of the promise, that through him will come the promised seed, in that seed is Christ. In a way it's Israel, we'll look at that in a minute. That word becomes that seed, comes into fulfillment, and in the person of Jesus the word became flesh. You have this word of God that comes down as a promise to Abraham and if you read Luke 8:11 you will see that God's word is the seed, or the seed is God's word. When Jesus telling that parable you will see how the word of God is the seed. That word came to Abraham is the promised seed that promise is a reality you know it's a spiritual reality that comes to pass in our time and space and that God plan is like a spiritual reality. King of Isreal


Paul calls it a mystery, John calls it a logos but it comes to pass and so Israel comes out of Abraham and Jesus comes out of Israel. Romans 9:5 so Israel under the law is like a shadow of Christ and that's what Paul is talking about in Colossians 2. He says these things are shadow of what is to come he's really talking about the law, but the substance is Christ or the body is Christ, what it literally says and what it means there is the body you know there's the shadow and then there's the reality of the body that casts the shadow on the son. The body is Christ he's the reality of this foreshadowing that took place in Israel for example at Exo 4:22 God calls Israel my firstborn son.


It's hard not to think about Jesus isn't it. If you read Hosea 11:1, he's talking about Israel, Matthew says he's talking about Jesus, well he is, it's not either/or it's both. Isaiah 53 is about God's chosen servant and suffering servant and you'll see these arguments between people, O this is about Israel and the other side will say no this is about Jesus. It doesn't work that way this is a shadow of Jesus. That's how these prophecies work, it's a working out and unfolding toward the Messiah in time and space and so it's not either Israel or Jesus it's both you know. Isaiah is talking about the servant, God's chosen servant in Isaiah and that's Israel the whole people of Israel God's promised seed. But it's represented down in one person the king of Israel, the king of the Jews, Jesus the Son of David of the tribe of Judah. The scepter will not depart from Judah and as a king he could represent all of his people, that's how they thought in those days. If you go back you know five hundred years, if your king was a certain religion that's what you were, and if he just decided to change his mind some day and you know he was Catholic now he's going to be a Protestant that's what you're going to be. The people just did it usually that's just how they thought because the king was the representative head of all the people. That's kind of why he could die for all his people and that's why you know Israel is all represented in Jesus on the cross.


That's what's so wonderful about how all this worked, how God did all of this. You see this working out of God's word, God's logos that He conceived before creation. The Son foretoldYou see all those passages in the above image on the left, there, all of them are basically the same thing. The word of the Lord came to Zechariah or a vision came to, I don't know Zephaniah or somebody and they are talking about the logos of God coming to these prophets. It's the same logos the same word of God conceived before the foundation in the world, the same logos He spoke to create all things, this is coming to them in the spirit, this word of God is coming to them in the spirit. And that's why they're getting pictures of God's son the Messiah, they're getting all these pictures of God's Son in the future and it might be kind of hazy and you know not totally clear to them, kind of like looking in a bronze mirror it's not perfect but it's still true. Nevertheless it's a true picture maybe not a full picture. The word of the Lord comes to all these prophets foretelling the Son, and they're getting a glimpse of this mystery that Paul talks about and they're being shown the logos that God can see before the foundation of the world. It's not like they're looking in a crystal ball and seeing into another dimension called the future. God is making the future, God is showing these prophets what He's going to cause these prophecies/word to come to pass in the future and it's already set in motion because God spoke it and what God spoke, came to these prophets in the spirit.